AUSTRALIAN POULTRY FORUM™

Seems I / we have gone off topic with origin of colours and whom is currently developing colours
Thats fair- it did wander a bit
how ever it has raised interesting points
The development of modern Lavender pekins, has been attibuted to Karen Jones (Cairns)& Steve Cox (lismore)
I have read several articles in Aust poultry, seen many photos, and Im sure that many members of this forum have seen or actually own birds from this line. Including I believe PA who bought some of steves birds at auction a few years ago
I know many people searched for and couldnt find this colour anywhere before hand.
Richard Lay of Victoria was also involved as he searched for years and found none
This is 1 published & well known line of them
It is entirely poss that others, (Drew Smith & family for 1, some one in WA for 2) also developed a line of lavenders. Unfortunately they seem to have vanished over the years.
Doesnt mean they didnt have them however.
So to whom does the credit go for the development of a line/colour??
In scientific circles, credit goes to those who publish first, and then go on. But what happens in chooks?
Does it go to whom shows first?,
wins a major prize first?
Publishes first?
whose line is still available?
or to whom has done their best to spread the genetics ,colour etc as far as possible?
Otherwise how do you prove it
This will become an interesting topic as there are several people working on Millefluer as well
PA are developing a millefluer line (as yet unavailable) as is Karen Jones in Cairns and several others proberbly. I know that Karen has shown with them, and won , and also sent some to this area of Nthn NSW & central Qldin case of carastophic loss.
I am very intersted inwhat others in the fancy think on the subject

Im sure all those that show have heard many times the comment that "I have better than that in my yard" at shows.
But when asked why they dont show, they hear some thing like:
" I couldnt be bothered,"
"the judge is an idiot" or
"the judge doesnt like me"
There are American studs in cattle & sheep whom are copyrighting or attempting to trademark a breed/ colour/trait in ablatent attempt to cash in on somethingIs this the way we want the poultry fancy to go?
For me it is not, as with most whom have a dozen or more birds in their yard for eggs etc
However there are some in it for cash & future prestge.
Nursuries already have to pay for PVR( plant variety rights), are poultry keepers to do the same?
God I hpe not
But I am interested in what everyone thinks asd this is just my opinion
So --Do you want to have to pay a fee to have a colour?
Should the makers of a colour be able to copyright it?
or do you want to possibly be sued for selling a certain colour bird if some one does claim a trademark/copyright????

Even though I'm one of those with a dozen ...or more birds in the back yard for eggs, etc, I'll be interested to see what others have to say on these issues.

Could become a legal minefield if such legislation was ever passed.

With my earlier cross-breeding of crossbreeds, I think I single handedly created a dozen different colours myself.

My feeling is that most of the breeders who are working to develop these new colours are doing so for the love of the breed, and because they like a challenge, not so much to make their millions.

Sure, the newer and rarer colours will fetch a higher price at sale while they are still new and rare, but the developers are well aware that once the colour becomes more widely spread the price they will fetch for "novelty value" will settle down.

The breeders I have spoken to have been friendly and willing to share their knowledge regarding these colour developments which is very exciting for a newcomer like me, so hopefully that can continue and we don't need to go down the path of patents/copyrights.

Deb

Well
no wonder people get screwed over
Ive seen people sit back and not put in any complaints when its announced that a local council was banning roosters (rural area)
the result
No roosters in town
all the poultry exhibitors screamed afterwards, but were to lazey to do anything when they could
When someone starts to trademark breeds, colours ,traits and everyone has to pay, just like its a product, I assume no readers of these forums will bat an eye
it will be to late then
If Layton Hewitt can apply for a copy right on a phrase(Come on!!) and wearing a backward hat, how far away is trademarking a chook?
some people do create birds just to develop, but there is the stirring of full commercialism entering the ring now.
Fair price for a bird I agree the cost of feed etc is going up, and peole have a right to charge,
but liscence fees & law suits will be along shortly
Then whom will protest?
by then it will be to late

Well blackdave

Quote from another web site from ruff.

ruff
Champion Bird
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 1101
Location: FNQ
Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject:

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you would be disappointed with my pekins, they are a mottley crew of cross breds...i admit it myself. the main aim is disease resitance then lots of little projects and experiments. most of the records are kept in my head.

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Cross breeds hey

No cross breeds at my place
Cheers Drew

That is probably not fair Drew.

We all make statements that are semi humourous. I don't think we should take things out of context. This breeder works very hard and puts a lot of time and effort into breeding new colours. We all do and our efforts should always be acknowledged positively. We all have something to add to the betterment of chook breeding as I am sure you do to. I try, but I must admit I am nowhere near breeders such as yourself or the one you quoted.

This thread has confused the hell out of me! Obviously something that some feel very strongly about, so I'll stay out of it after this.

I myself (a very new breeder) am now sticking to purebreds, having been stuck with 3 little crossbred roosters (I can't chop their heads off!), so I'll leave the new colour development to the experts - and am prepared to pay the price if I really wish to buy a new colour/breed from them later!

Good luck to the pioneers out there - have fun!!!!

Deb

there is already trademarking /copy right happening in the poultry world----look at hyalines and other commercial hybrids------but the commercial market is where there s a demand and monatary value to make it worthwhile------as far as new colours and breeds, while it is feesable, and legally possable, the cost involved for the return, at this point in time does not make it a viable proposition-----and most people in pure breed poultry fancy are experimenting for their own interests and for the expansion of their chosen breed,certainly not commercial gain------cheers pam

greetings all
Well at last an honest breeder
All poultry are x breeds as most children with chooks should know --pekins are a long way from ghallas ( jungle fowl)
About time someone told the truth, and I recall she did say how she created the birds by crossing to another breed that carried the required colour in a magazine articale. Well done Ruff.!! And a good sense of humour to. No doubt her Millefluers and Gold Laced "X Breds" will be in as high demand as Steve Cox / K Johns Lavender Line are.
Interesting Drew, that you say you have no X breeds in your yard, (now??)-as I am interested in your previous claim to have created a lavender ---without "x breds"??
Can you expand a bit on the way you created them, and perhaps supply a picture or 2?. Would be good for a person of your obvious expertise to spread your knowledge of increasing colour genetic pool without X breeding
Or not
Did you make millefluer as well or gold laced pekins as well?
Any way, that is off topic

Topic was i recall "Creating new colours" and should people be able to copy right, or trademark a colour, and how to identify the actual creator of a line/ colour
Its yet to happen in chooks but it will happen eventually
Question was i recall-
Should it be allowed, and does the fancy support it??

Better get back to work
Very foggy here at the moment --currently PNG mountains . I'll try take some pics of the local fowl if I can figure the gallery out
Safe travels to you all
Black Dave

I dont feel that colours should be 'copyrighted'.

Being in the Nursery industry i see the ammount of hassles the PBR (plant breeder rights) or PVR create.

BUt

I can see both sides of the coin. Alot of expence, time and effort goes into creating a new breed/colour or a plant. We hybridise our oun daffodils, and it takes in excess of 20 years to prove the variety and MABEY have a few to sell. Its the same with chooks, alot of hard work and money goes into it.

I feel most people devolp new colours as a labour of love, and i do agree that when the start to sell them, they deserve a higher price to help cover their costs, but lets keep poultry so everyone can enjoy it - not just those with too much money.

Honk