AUSTRALIAN POULTRY FORUM™

Your dates are spot on Drew and you will notice the last posted photo has the date of the 20th of November 2008 some 7 - 8 months prior to the first two photographs. If I take disks out from 2007, 2006, 2005 etc to find more photographs of Javas or any subject taken on field trips these will also have dates on them...... Your point is??? I personally like to keep all photographs archived by the year they were taken so that they match diary entries. I like to keep records of who, where, when & why so that I know exactly what year disk/memory stick the visual reference can be found.
Which photograph are we referring to as the one I think you are referring is of a male as good (in my opinion) as is found in Australia as it is directly linked to Adelaide zoo and the bird on the right is not any form of cross as it is a blue?
A good Java is more than isolating one or two features. The purity of a bird needs to be judged as a whole package. What would be the point of having the perfect scaling and copper sheen if the bird has no leg under it and has a splayed crest with no yellow mask??? That would be like saying that if it has webbed feet and swims it must be a duck when in fact the object of your attention is a goose! If I have darker toned skin does this make me an aboriginal or could I in fact be a south African, Ethiopian or Indian? We inherit different things from our parents such as eye colour, hair colour, skin colour, height etc etc but just because I inherit one or two of these features does not mean I am a complete package. Many years later I could throw a recessive gene that has been hidden often referred too as a "throw back" by breeders, which means even though I look pure somewhere along the line I have hidden traits or genes that tell a truer story of how I was created. Sometimes these hidden genes can go unnoticed for many generations, am I still pure?
The link below shows what true Javas look like. These birds have been genetically tested for purity and some of this stock will be released back into the wild in there homeland from this breeder. http://www.pavo-muticus-muticus.de/english/index.html
There are plenty of overseas references but since we cannot import wouldn't it be more helpful to use Australian references and photographs as we could spend months going through sites and photographs overseas.
If these are such bad examples of birds available in Australia please feel free to post photographs of Australian birds which are similar or better than these birds that have been used as an example only. Feel free to be direct and tell me exact points that reflect your view that these are crosses. Feel free to critique individual points on these birds so that we can have an unbiased discussion on what is in fact a cross or not. As I said just because it swims doesn't mean it is a duck....... some where out there I think hippos are swimming too.

Without this testing you have no bench mark. No starting point. Without fingerprinting it is here say and pure means as little as the paper it is printed on.

If you would like to debate the photo from Bows is fine. Have a look at the leg length on the photos of the Java Spalding comparison.....They are the same incorrect length.
Java leg length should be 1/3 longer again than the body size. It can be seen on the Germany site I posted and it can be seen on some of the photographs I sent, it can also be seen on quiet a few visual reference on the internet. If you measure the leg length on the Bows photo, the leg length of the animal is equal to the size of the body. It is not around 1/3 longer again as it is in any of the pure photos from Germany that are proven. The authenticity of the German birds are proven this is not under dispute... They are pure with DNA fingerprinting to match! Without this testing you have no bench mark. No starting point. Without fingerprinting it is here say and pure means as little as the paper it is printed on. I could say I have pure Javas, it means nothing except my interpretation of what I see. It has no scientific backing. What I do see when I look at my birds compared to those held in Germany is I still have a long way to go to improve the genetic stock I hold as do most.
You will also notice the crest feather size and shape. The crest is tighter and the feather shape is long and tear dropped running almost the whole length of the shaft. The Java Spalding photos are looser crested and have rounded defined ocelli that do not run the full length of the shaft. You will notice the leg length on the photograph of my cock bird is almost there but could improve. They are longer than the body but not quiet long enough to be proportional to the Germany photographs. The photographs do not lie, they are proportionate from any distance or angle.