AUSTRALIAN POULTRY FORUM™

Gillian,
Breeding a Black Rhode Island. First a decision would need to be made in relation to the standard, type is fairly easy its a Rhode Island. Colour is the biggest issue. Noting most of our black coloured breeds with yellow legs, require pure yellow legs, not horn as in the Reds. Yes the whites have pure yellow legs. In breeding Black Leghorns for example you need to double mate i.e. a pullet line and cockerel line. Now for the purist of Rhodes they were breed so that there was no need to double mate, one breeding pen could produce both exhibition males and females. Yes it is true you get a variety within one mating especially with the marking in the Reds wings.

Now based on the above in allowing horn colouring in the legs ( Option 1 - single mating option), I would consider using a off type Black Plymouth Rock in preference Black Wyandotte and cross these with your best type Red. Now possible here is the chance to use one of those occassional Red chickens with too much smut, the excess black would be good in this instance. These birds often have great feather quality, and this would be a good trait to have in the new line.

Now it is simply a matter of breeding and selecting the birds with the best leg colour, type and the black ones. Many will carry the gold gene, cockerels and pullets with red hackle. Ove a number of matings and selecting the correct birds you get your Black Rhode. I have not mentioned heads, combs ect. as these are given traits all breeders naturally deal with.

Bit off topic. Note if you cross a Rhode Island Red with a Barred Plymouth Rock, the pullets are generally all black including legs (some a little dusky), while the cockerels are barred like a Plymouth Rock. At hatching you can easilly tell the boys and girls i.e. sex linked characterstics. It may be an otion in phase one to get black birds, but you have introduced the barring gene, just another thing to breed out though.

In Option 2 (double mating ie spearate pullet and Cockerel line for Yellow Legs). Follow the method for breeding Black Pekins or Leghorns. I think there is enough information in relation to these requirements. The pullet line ends with standard pullets with cockerels with white in them, and in the cockerel line, standard cockerels with pullets with dusky legs.

I think I would still look to start with Rocks or Wyandottes. I need to keep thinking about this.

I hope this helps and I hope other at some further thoughts.

Rhode Red

Hi Rhode,
Thanks for your input, we must have been both typing madly at the same time. lol
Is this what we call "brain storming" ??
It is exactly what is needed, as many and varied inputs as possible.
Chuck the ideas around, alter and expand them and come to a common consensis.
I see we already had the same thought in a black Rock as a base, besides the colour both breeds are American in origin, created at a similar time and possibly share some common heritage.

Oaklands you got in first.
Yes I am not sure how my fellow Rhode breeders would feel accepting a "Black" bird.
I think your white option is a good idea, but my only concern is that you would need to be very specific on the birds you start with, as while the white have improved many still lack the finer points. I also know some of the white breeders have used Reds to improve the type and occassionally you see a bird with a touch of ginger in the hackle or breast. You might get a shock by the first chickens.

Hence why I am still leaning towards the red option. Yes there may be a few Sunday dinners produced, thanks the the gold/red gene.

I had a mating one year that had way too much black in it, to the point the chickens almost looked like Barnvelders with that much black showing through. Many breeders have these culls each year.

Rhode Red

A project like this is where the planning and exchange of ideas and opinions is vital to produce a clear path with a firm goal in sight.
The free exchange of ideas, looked at from every angle and discussed openly, honestly is a good starting point.
Look forward to the progress of this discussion with enthusiasm.

I agree many of the colours today are the result of multiple breeders at work and cooperation is such a rewarding part of the end result

Good to see such cooperation on what could be a popular colour in a popular breed well done

So Rhode Island Reds have this genotype for feather colour:

eWh/eWh s+/s+ (s+/-) Mh/Mh Co/Co &/or Db/Db rb/rb p+p+ r+r+ d+d+ (or eb/eb Co/Co Mh/Mh)

Australorps and Orpingtons are like this:

E/E S/S (S/-) Ml/Ml bl+/bl+ W+/W+ p+/p+ r+/r+ id+/id+ (id+/-) W+/W+

I suspect that the Aus/Orps may be the best donors because they have some common breed origins with the RIR.

So you'd need to backcross E and S and Ml as a minimum into the RIR. The first cross should be black but patchy because it has Co as well, the first backcross (BC1) will segregate. You'd need to generate a minimum of 30 BC1 progeny, but preferably 100 or so and pick the blackest to use as parents to backcross to a RIR to make the second backcross (BC2). If I were doing it i'd generate 100 or so BC2s using several BC1 donor parents, then intermate the BC2 progeny to select the blackest. You'd need to select to get rid of Co and make E, S, and Ml homozygous for the clearest expression of blackness. By the BC2 you should pretty much have recovered the right skin and leg colours.

Is possible that it may be more complicated than I've described too because the RIR might have autosomal red as well as the s+ and Mh. That may either enhance the green sheen or make breakthough red tones.

Amongst the BC2s you'd also need to select for type.

After a bit more investigation, I agree that a black Plymouth is probably a better donor than the Orps. Failing that then a Black Leghorn might be a plan.

This is all so powerful info I cannot thank you all enough

Has anyone had good consistent success with RIW and are all your roos fertile?