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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 5:57 am 
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TWO FACED
TWO FACED

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:31 pm
Posts: 2903
What Dave is saying is a very wise an honest statement , please respect his honesty and advice , I have been an animal lover all my life ,and also worked for the RSPCA , sadly we have to be cruel to be kind sometimes , I don't think he is saying all out culling ,

Sometimes we need to weigh up whether we will will let an animal , carry diseases to the rest of our beautiful beloved pets . and have to make the tough decision .
Anyone who has ever met me or been to my place knows how much that I love my birds , and on the odd occasion I have had to make the tough decision , to put them down .


Tahir started this thread , by telling us he has some infected birds and then asking could the disease then spread to his peafowl and other birds . I know what a beautiful collection of birds our young mate has got ,and I'd to see him lose some of his priceless fowl ,which are his pets and freinds because ,he left a few carriers in his yard .

The thing that makes this such a great site is that we can all be open and honest with each other , Lets keep it that way :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:55 pm
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Location: Central Nsw
Killing chooks because they get sick is just not right, some times you have to becaue they cannot be treated but not because they MIGHT be carriers, and he was saying ALL and it's not wise but cruel I'm sure all chook lovers will agree


Joanne


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 Post subject: culling
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:58 am
Posts: 267
I think blackdave is looking at the bigger picture - the welfare of all poultry and not just one (and even further to wider consequences). While I am not always in a position to do this myself, I can see his viewpoint. Sadly, when we keep and breed chooks, the day will come when we have to give them the gift of a swift and painless end - either for their own benefit or for the benefit of others. I hate doing it, but I do it because all responsible poultry owners need to at some time. We don't all have to agree with blackdave - but his position should be respected.

It's completely different if you have a small number of pet chooks, and when there is a health issue you go to the vet. When you are dealing with larger numbers and improving breeding lines, this is not always possible.


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 2:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 8:24 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Border Ranges NSW
"Yes true, you cannot know all the birds status, however culling on presentation of symptoms does work well"

So Joanne, what do you do with a sick bird?
Take it to the vet I think you said.
What does the vet do?
Give it 2 or 3 days worth of drugs , sends it home with instructions to keep them warm, quiet, unstressed and probably seperate so the others dont pick on it.
After a few days the problem goes away or not. What do you do if it hasnt gone away? The bird gets worse and dies or goes back to the vet for another go if its still alive
How long do You keep it up?
Is it suffering?Is that cruel?
OR
The vet tells you it may be terminal and should be put down
Is that cruel??
IS it more humane for the vet to give it green dream than for me to kill it instantly?
What if its infectious and will spread the illness
Superficially the bird may get better, but infect all the others
What would the vet recommend?
Infect the whole flock? Or reduce the risk by destroying the sick
Wouldnt that be cruel? OR
More humane?
Would you rather treat the symptoms over and over, with the knowledge that you may make things worse and make bacteria resistant to the treatment, not just for your birds but everyones?

Remember SARS?
Or H5N1
What if it jumps the species barrier in YOUR yard
Its now resistant to most if not all drugs

Imagine that doesnt happen to you, but the potential is still there
You sell or give away some birds, or eggs for hatching
To a family with children
And it happens in THEIR yard

Seem excessive?
I should hope so

I see the consequences of my actions.
I see the consequences of others as well
It is the RESPONSABILITY of the owner/ breeder to look beyond the now
If they or you are not willing to accept the responsability of decisions then they should not put themselves in the situation where they may need to be made

I work and travel in areas that arnt in the guide books as recommended places to visit.
My wife and children have discussed this with me.
If I die here, murdered, or held hostage etc, they know its no good to complain
We realise the risks involved and accept them
Its the consequense of the descion we made and we are prepared to live with them.
Doesnt mean we are stupid or foolhardy, infact we check carefully these places before I go. We know the risk.

Now the final scenario
The bugs in the chook were bad.
And now resistant to all bar 1 antibiotic
Luckily the outbreak is contained
Except for the 2 children in the oxygen tents in hospital intensive care ward whom cuddled the chicks.

"Its not my fault, I didnt know"
I cant garuntee you, that will not happen from a bird in my yard
But I will do all I can to ensure it doesnt.
Ignorance is no excuse
But then killing a sick chook is cruel, isnt it??
Dave


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 2:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 8:24 pm
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Location: Border Ranges NSW
You dont have to kill off the thread,
I'll say no more on the subject
Dave


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:34 am
Posts: 251768
Location: Warwick Qld
Comparing crd to bird flue & sars :lol: :lol: you go on chopping the rest of us will look after our chooks.

Joanne sent you a message, will all make sense after you read it ;)
Cheers Drew


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 6:21 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:55 pm
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Location: Central Nsw
got it thanks I kinda guessed already how sad hey.


Joanne


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 6:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:34 am
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maybe they like role-playing :lol: :lol:
Cheers Drew


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 4:38 am 
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Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 8:24 pm
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Location: Border Ranges NSW
Where did Sars come from Drew?
H5N1?
I have an opinion, as Im allowed
You dont have to agree nor does anyone else
But lets see some backing to yours or Joanne other than emotion
Im prepared to mine out for comment
As far as role playing ,
Care to expand? or are you trying to be mysterious?
Still waiting for a sensible answer other than" thats cruel"
How long Joanne do you let a chook suffer under medical care?
Do you personnally risk your flock by treating symptoms of an untreatable disease?
and then go on to sell or give birds or eggs away?
Yes I will continue to chop
obviously you both seem to be unable to string a coherrent argument of why not to cull
Other than "its cruel"
Its your opinion and as is mine , you are entiltled to it
Be good if you could produce any scientific basis to found it on however
Or maybe its just to emotional an issue for you?


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 Post subject: chopping block
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 7:18 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:58 am
Posts: 267
Sad ending Tahir. :( Hope that's the end of your troubles.


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